In this episode, host Kristina Ivy and Idaho divorce attorney Robert J. Taylor discuss how to tell your children you’re getting divorced, Kristina adjusts to live as a co-parent, and Robert discusses his experience as a stepparent.
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Transcript:
Kristina Ivy (00:11)
Welcome to Divorce Not Murder, the podcast where we hopefully make divorce more appealing than homicide. I’m your host, Kristina Ivy, mental health therapist, mom of two, and new addition to the ranks of the recently divorced. We’ve also got Robert Taylor here, Idaho based divorce attorney and step -parent extraordinaire.
Robert J. Taylor (00:33)
Hello, Kristina.
Kristina Ivy (00:35)
You’re so far away. Hello, hello, hello. No. How are you doing? Yeah, how was your forest?
Robert J. Taylor (00:37)
Echo! I’m good. Tired. Long day.
It was good. I don’t remember. was like a week ago. New week, new me. America. was freedom, family, and fireworks. Like those are the three F’s of 4th of July. Freedom, family, slash friends, and fireworks.
Kristina Ivy (00:50)
Merica. Noon.
Yeah, freedom. Sorry, wait, what?
Okay.
We’ll keep in mind the three F’s for the 4th of July. Shouldn’t it be four F’s for the 4th of July? Come on now, there’s gotta be some, gotta come up with
Robert J. Taylor (01:12)
I guess. So freedom, family, fireworks.
Kristina Ivy (01:17)
All right, that works. Why? I like it. Let’s just go and we’re gonna roll with it. Yeah, what are we talking about? I said it first, jinx.
Robert J. Taylor (01:19)
We gotta start over. Yeah, we gotta, I don’t know. All right, let’s keep going. We’re roll with it, all right. What are we talking about?
I think we’re talking about how to tell your kids you’re getting divorced. that right? Is that tonight’s topic?
Kristina Ivy (01:39)
Yeah,
that was something we, yeah, we had bandied about as an idea. Yeah, I think that everyone’s gonna have like a different experience with something like that, right? I can speak to how it sort of went with me personally. I would be surprised if that was a common experience for people, but I think there’s some principles that people can use to guide the conversation.
Robert J. Taylor (02:10)
like some best practices.
Kristina Ivy (02:13)
Yeah, yeah. think when Lance and I were talking about how we were going to tell the kids, one of the tactics we always use for big conversations, right, or where we’re not sure entirely what, how to answer the question that they’ve asked because we don’t know if they actually want all of the information related to it. So for example, like where babies come from, right? If you’re not ready to have that conversation with your kids or you don’t think that that’s super age appropriate,
Robert J. Taylor (02:14)
Very good.
Kristina Ivy (02:41)
you’ve got to decide how much to get into it, right? So we used that kind of idea in, okay, we’re gonna tell the kids about the divorce, but we’re gonna keep it really simple, a really like not value -laden description of what it was, leave lots of space for questions. And so we sat the kids down at the table and we just said straight up, mom and dad,
are not gonna be romantic partners anymore, but we’re always gonna be partners in loving you and raising you. And what that means is we aren’t gonna live in the same house anymore. immediately sort of my oldest was like, so you have to get a new house? You’re gonna get a new car? And then that’s sort of where the conversation went. They weren’t really shocked about…
that I think it helps too when your kids have friends, right? Who have parents who are already divorced and they’ve seen that kind of play out.
Robert J. Taylor (03:52)
Your
kid went straight to, are we getting two Christmases?
Kristina Ivy (03:55)
Yeah, yeah, right. And trying to look at the benefits of it, the positives of it. And my littlest, he didn’t have any questions at the time. He really focused on the fact that mommy was going to need to buy a new car. But later he had questions and I think it surprised me that he needed more time to process what exactly I was saying and what it meant. And then he had some questions about
Well, why? And I think that’s the hardest one, right? You’re not trying to villainize any particular parent and you’re not trying to pit your children against anyone, but they want some reason. And I think that’s where parents can get hung up in trying to give a reason without getting into the pain of it and the arguments and the reasons, the hurt.
Robert J. Taylor (04:56)
Well, let’s talk for a minute like what not necessarily what divorce means to kids, but what is this? I like to use the term new normal I mean, yeah Probably maybe gonna live at two places You might live at two new places. I understand your kids and your ex remained in the same home But a lot of times both parents might move Yeah, could be different schools depending on the circumstances
Kristina Ivy (05:04)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. It means two different places, yeah.
Robert J. Taylor (05:24)
holidays, birthdays, can be different. New or different clothes, I guess, if you go on back and forth. Seems a lot of change.
Kristina Ivy (05:37)
It is. And I think because we were mindful of how much change they would have, and I recognize this as a privilege that not everyone has, but we were able to keep so much of their lives the same to help with that transition. So Lance remaining in the home, the kids having that home that is all they’ve really known, staying in their same schools.
It helped a lot, I think, bridge the
Robert J. Taylor (06:09)
Yeah, one thing I like to point out to clients I see a lot of, a lot of times it’s mom staying in the home and dad’s moving out and it’s not uncommon for either parent that moves out to maybe get an apartment or a smaller house because you got to make some adjustments and figure some stuff out and it’s like, well, the kids can go to dad’s place on Tuesdays or whatever it is, know. Kids are going to live at home and go to dad’s house every other weekend.
And I correct them and say, look, they’re not going to dad’s home. They’re going to have two homes. That’s their house. They’re going to their second house or their other house. They’re going to be home at both places. Both places should feel comfortable. Both places should feel like home. And the kids are going to have two homes. It’s not that the kids are going to go be guests. They’re going to go visit the other parent at that secondary
Kristina Ivy (07:04)
It’s their home too. I think that’s a subtle but an important use of language. I will say that my kids, they were the ones that defaulted to calling it mom’s house and dad’s house.
Robert J. Taylor (07:16)
Yeah, I think that’s
a good way to… What’s the difference, right? Like, we’re call it by the street name or something, you know? Like, or the house number, house number four. Yeah. But yeah, but that’s different than our home and mom’s house, you know? Or home and mom’s place, you know? Mom’s house, dad’s house, they’re equal.
Kristina Ivy (07:23)
The Vancouver house or that. Yeah. Yeah.
And you make another good point though, too, about it’s people aren’t always able to create sort of equivalent living arrangements for their kids, even if their parenting time is equivalent. And so I feel really lucky that we were able to have, you know, it’s not the same exactly, but to have houses where they have their own rooms. They have, you know, we tried to to create environments that feel in both locations and that they wouldn’t have any sort of preference for one place over the other because materialistically, you know, oh, we now they’re in a 900 square foot cramped like apartment when they’re used to living in a bigger house.
Robert J. Taylor (08:24)
Yeah, I’m sure that helped with that transition when possible.
Kristina Ivy (08:31)
But think keeping an age appropriate for sure, simple, being really reassuring that no matter what, whatever they expect their parents to be present at, they’re gonna be at together, basketball games, music lesson, know, whatever it is that they would expect to have both of their parents doing your best to show up together for
Robert J. Taylor (08:47)
Yeah, do you find that it’s like an ongoing dialogue?
Kristina Ivy (08:58)
Surprisingly, no. I my oldest still at times finds the answer of the question of why we got divorced unsatisfying. And so we’ll revisit it from time to time and mull it over.
Robert J. Taylor (09:16)
Yeah, well, I you probably haven’t given her the honest reason, whatever that is, with yourself to your daughter. That probably wouldn’t be age appropriate. So I mean, she probably does feel like the answer is incomplete because you have given her an incomplete answer by design or intent.
Kristina Ivy (09:32)
Yeah, we’ve given her the shape of it. I think it’s perfectly fine when they’re nine years old to talk about how sometimes your friends change in your life because your interests change and your compatibility changes. And that that can happen in grownup relationships too with friends and with spouses.
Robert J. Taylor (09:57)
People change.
Kristina Ivy (10:01)
And I think whenever we have that conversation though, there’s always, I always make sure that I reiterate nothing that my children can do or say or be would ever make me not be in their lives, right? I will always love them. I will always be there for them. That is never going to change.
Robert J. Taylor (10:25)
Yeah, well let’s talk for a minute about being present for all the events. Do you guys, I mean, doesn’t matter whose week it is, you go into the basketball game, if that’s what you want to do. What about practices? mean, do you guys get the kids to practice when it’s your week, or is one parent doing that?
Kristina Ivy (10:41)
We don’t, yeah, it’s more, yeah, I think we strive to be at performance -based activities or really important educational moment activities together. Shortly after our divorce was finalized, it was the first day of school for our kids. And they organically asked that we both be there for drop -off on the first day.
And honestly, it was five seconds. It didn’t seem like it should have been that important to them, but it was enough for them to ask. So we did it. And of course we’re going to do that, you
Robert J. Taylor (11:23)
Yeah, we have a tradition where we walk or I think we either walk or drive or doctor to school on the first day and watch her go to the building and I’d like to think we’d maintain that tradition if we didn’t maintain our relationship. So that makes sense. What about like discussing activities for your kids, soccer teams, swim lessons, dance club, whatever? How have you guys navigated that area? Have you? Had to?
Kristina Ivy (11:52)
It’s a dance of like, if they’re going to start something new, are we both able to support it? So I live, I live further away. I have a more traditional job where I am in an office at times or seeing people in the community and, and Lance primarily works from home. So he has more flexibility. He’s also closer to a lot of the activities that my kids want to participate in. So it’s
We do have conversations of, this is pretty much gonna always fall on your Thursday since you consistently have Thursdays. But maybe I can support this activity that falls on my day or,
Robert J. Taylor (12:37)
Yeah, I think it’s like an interesting topic that comes up because it really, in my mind, maybe it’s the first time that parents have had to think about co -parenting post -divorce where it’s like, what would we do if one of us wants the kids in the activities and one doesn’t? And it’s like, we’re going to have to talk about it. And I don’t know that there’s a court order or a parenting plan that will answer every single question that you can think about. like last year we got our daughter, she wanted to do cheerleading. They went to tryouts.
⁓ there was the choice between being like, I don’t remember all the colors and codes and the whole vocab. I’m a girl with dad, but not a cheer dad. ⁓ but like she could be on like one team that, was the entry level where you show up once a week and do some stuff and there, all that competition was local or could be on a team where you showed up twice a week and competitions were like, think in Salt Lake or somewhere we’re going to get in a car and drive to and spend the night a week at a hotel, right.
Kristina Ivy (13:11)
Mm -hmm
Robert J. Taylor (13:34)
You know, and like my wife and I had a conversation, like my wife’s like, we should do the higher one. And I was like, I don’t know. Like, first of all, like it’s hard enough. She does swim lessons. Now we got to, you know, like how many nights a week are we willing to leave the office early and take turns to get the kid from daycare and get her to the activities. And then, you know, do we want to commit to signing up for these expensive trips to go do a thing if we don’t even know that she likes the thing yet, right? Like she told us she wants to do
She’s been doing it for four days. But that’s a conversation that we had as a married couple that we would still need to have as a divorced couple. What are we doing?
Kristina Ivy (14:11)
Mm -hmm.
And especially if there’s part of your plan too, or your decree where you’re splitting joint costs for the kids as well. Like it has to be agreed upon that you’re both gonna support that activity.
Robert J. Taylor (14:28)
Yeah.
Yeah, or one parent will have to pick up the tab or not do the activity.
Kristina Ivy (14:37)
If it’s so important to them, yeah, that they want to do all the coordination and all the cost themselves and only on their time.
Robert J. Taylor (14:45)
Yeah, the challenge is that kids can’t do a kid activity every other week or every weekend or every other weekend or whatever the case is. It is kind of a disappointment or a bummer for the kid if they can’t do an activity. And it kind of all depends. Like if you live in the same town as your spouse and said my kid play football at the high school and it’s like, yeah, maybe, right? Like you can still partake in your parenting schedule that way
It isn’t feasible to be on the high school football team every other week or to miss Friday night games when it’s dad’s weekend or whatever it is. But if dad lives 90 minutes to two hours away and has every other weekend and mom wants to sign kid up for flag football that’s on Saturday mornings for 10 weeks in a row at 7 a .m. Dad probably does get to have the opinion that that’s going to drastically cut or reduce his parent and time is already limited pairing.
Kristina Ivy (15:23)
Yeah.
Robert J. Taylor (15:43)
the parroting time, right? So just some considerations.
Kristina Ivy (15:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s gonna look so different for everyone. I think just that constant reminder to prioritize your children whenever possible and the things that will help them feel secure and give them that sense of normalcy and love.
Robert J. Taylor (16:08)
Now what have you guys done to kind of maintain normal, make things normal or to make a new normal? Now what does that look like?
Kristina Ivy (16:15)
Yeah, just in the last month has been so both their dad and I are in new relationships that are going on, you know, like anywhere from eight to 10 months -ish. it just happened that way, yeah.
Robert J. Taylor (16:35)
That got serious real quick.
Kristina Ivy (16:42)
And this in the last month is when we, we’d each introduced the kids to our new significant other beforehand. But on the 4th of July was the first time Lance and the kids and my boyfriend, Todd, were in the same space together. And then our youngest also had a birthday last week and it was my first time having prolonged
time with Lance’s girlfriend and her daughter with the kids in a social situation as well. So that’s been the new normal is they’re having all of their adults now that are kind of in their lives in that way in the same space.
Robert J. Taylor (17:30)
That probably makes it little bit easier on them, a more enjoyable. And I would say, I you guys probably haven’t crossed this boat yet, but if you’re going to participate in those activities, share the cost. If you decide we’re going to have a joint birthday party at the roller skate rink, because that’s what you did in 1994. and mom and dad are showing up and inviting everybody.
Kristina Ivy (17:34)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Robert J. Taylor (17:56)
Like you guys need to split the cost of that party. However, you guys are splitting stuff in your relationship. It’s not super cool when one parent is writing that check and then the other parent’s kind of getting credit for the shared party. It’s like, yeah, Sure, it’s great of your other parent to be present today and get credit for half of this birthday party that he or she paid nothing for.
Kristina Ivy (17:57)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
⁓ yeah, we don’t have that issue and I am grateful for that. It’s definitely a shared labor in organizing. It’s a shared labor in cost and everything.
Robert J. Taylor (18:35)
What do you guys do about
gifts? You get twice the gifts or is one of you a gift? Super cool gift and the other one doesn’t care about gifts? what’s…
Kristina Ivy (18:39)
We communicate with each other what we’re getting, what our family members may or may not be getting in other people. It doesn’t necessarily influence or change what we want to do, but we find that we sort of naturally get this equilibrium where like I’m picking out maybe four things. And so they probably get more gifts than most kids for sure, but they also have two houses in which they have those gifts, right? Like it’s…
Robert J. Taylor (19:12)
Yeah,
I think that kind of became an issue, not an issue, but more aware of as the kids got older and the gifts got bigger and more expensive.
Kristina Ivy (19:23)
Yeah, things they had to ferry back and forth with intention.
Robert J. Taylor (19:27)
Yeah, like our son wanted a telescope and we got him one for Christmas a couple years ago and we spent a couple hundred on it. But it was like, well, let’s make sure that he didn’t tell his dad so he doesn’t end up with two couple hundred dollar telescopes, you know. Wasn’t like really that big of a deal when he was younger and like. Yeah, he has two GI Joes of the same doll. Oh, well, again, 1994 reference, you know, bummer where we spent 20 bucks when you need to.
Kristina Ivy (19:55)
You’re revisiting your childhood, Mr. Nostalgia.
Robert J. Taylor (19:58)
Yes, it’s a 90s night, I guess. it’s just, I think as the gifts got bigger, was like, let’s make sure that we’re both not getting them the same gift. Because they’re asking for the same items from anybody that’s willing to give them that item.
Kristina Ivy (20:17)
Right? Yeah. The list is the same. Usually. Wherever they are.
Robert J. Taylor (20:20)
Yeah, so it’s like, yeah,
so it’s like what items are you getting? What are we getting? We haven’t ever done a shared gift. Have you guys done that in the limited 11 months you’ve been divorced?
Kristina Ivy (20:34)
Technically not, no, but in a way. So Cora just outgrew their bike. So Lance took sort of spearheaded the effort of figuring out which replacement bike and what, but we’re gonna share the cost of it. Like it’s certainly, no.
Robert J. Taylor (20:53)
Now I’m to get two bikes.
Well, they’re not going to ride bikes at your house, so you’re going to bring the bikes back and forth. What’s happening with the bike situation?
Kristina Ivy (21:01)
Well, I mean, yeah, there’s so they have scooters at my house, but Lance also has a bike rack on his vehicle and would transport them if we needed them for something. Like if I had planned for a weekend long bike ride somewhere.
Robert J. Taylor (21:05)
Okay.
Yeah, gotta borrow the bike that you paid for half of.
Kristina Ivy (21:21)
Yeah, but I mean, again, that’s sort of what works for us is we’ve both been extremely willing to ferry things that were forgotten. You know, if there was an important shirt that somebody wanted to wear for Spirit Day and it was at the other parent’s house, like making an effort to not have that be a hardship on the kids because of the decision that we made not to be together
Robert J. Taylor (21:48)
Now what do you guys do about clothes?
Kristina Ivy (21:51)
We did split the clothes that they had and we have kind of made it each individual parent’s responsibility to add and remove as they outgrow stuff from our own sort of collections. But they, you know, on switching days, they go, I’ll find a shirt that their dad got him and I’m like, wow, this is a cool shirt. You know, I like it,
Robert J. Taylor (22:07)
Yeah, collection.
Yeah, because they get up one day of the week or some day of the week and get dressed at dad’s house. Then they go to sleep at mom’s house. So the clothes are going to come over. So.
Kristina Ivy (22:27)
Yep.
You get lots of cross. I think where people get find difficulties are those specialty items of like raincoats. You’ve got to make sure they have their raincoat when it’s a rainy day and that it goes with them to, know, even if it’s not a rainy day, but you know, it’s going to rain two days later when it’s during dad’s parenting time. So you do have to do like that forecasting a little bit more and trying to make sure. Yep.
Robert J. Taylor (22:53)
or snow boots if you live in Idaho.
Kristina Ivy (22:57)
Yeah, if you’re in Idaho. Because you don’t want to necessarily have a million pairs of everything. Some of those things are costly too. Like the winter jackets can be expensive.
Robert J. Taylor (22:59)
⁓ yeah, what?
Correct. Yes.
Yeah, our son will literally wear whatever’s on the top of the dresser or the top of the bed if he doesn’t feel like putting it away. Yeah, sometimes it’s like, dude, you outgrew those pants. What are you doing? I’m supposed to go to your ankles. Like, what’s happening? He’s like, they’re in my room. You don’t have to wear them because they’re in your room, buddy. But anyways, he doesn’t really care. Our daughter, though,
Kristina Ivy (23:20)
Shorts and a hoodie all year long.
Ha ha ha!
Robert J. Taylor (23:39)
had her own wardrobe and would, still does, just brings everything that she owns back and forth between the houses on exchange day. And it’s like, why are you showing up with three duffel bags of stuff? Like, do we need to get you a second set of stuff? Do you need to, do you don’t do laundry there? Like what’s happening? And she’s just like, I never know what I’m gonna wear, want to wear that week. So I just bring everything that I have my entire wardrobe to pick from. And it’s
Kristina Ivy (23:50)
wow.
And that’s what that worked for her. Wow.
Robert J. Taylor (24:10)
Yeah, I don’t know. You could tell she jives herself now. But before they would take the bus from our house so they would get dropped off here and she’d open up the front door and shove three duffel bags into the door and go get on the bus. So you’d come home from work and be like, all right. Now it’s her brother doing it with his football equipment, just throwing it in the house. But
Kristina Ivy (24:37)
Mm. Right.
Robert J. Taylor (24:39)
That’s what she did. then I, you know, that comes up sometimes people want to do exchanges sometimes at school, right? Like, Hey, I’ll get the kid to school Monday morning. You pick the kid up and it’s like, well, what are you going to do when your kid’s 16 and has three duffel bags of clothes that they want to bury back and forth between their houses, you
Kristina Ivy (24:59)
Right, right. Or they have that football equipment. It just, I think, highlights how important communication is between co -parents and how much it needs to be as practical and respectful and driven by prioritizing the kids.
Robert J. Taylor (25:21)
And them kids will leave stuff at the other parent’s house. That’s what they do. Especially if they don’t need it for a while. Like our son had a week off of football practice this summer. And it’s time to go back to practice. So it’s Monday morning, 20 minutes before practice. And the shoes he had on one for a week were at the other parent’s house.
Kristina Ivy (25:24)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. The other thing I was just reminded of is medication when they’re started. Like, so there was a while back where the kids both were having some gnarly ear infections and that’s, you know, bubble gum amoxicillin for freaking 10 days straight and making sure that that gets back and forth between the houses, that it stays refrigerated or cold, that it, you
Robert J. Taylor (25:46)
Yeah, I
Kristina Ivy (26:08)
that they get all the doses that they’re supposed to get.
Robert J. Taylor (26:12)
Yeah,
I mean, obviously putting it back and forth between two fridges is unique to not living together, but it’s still like our daughter gets an area, has to have the jobs every six hours. It’s like, hey, did you do it this morning? Yes. Or hey, I’m going to give her these now. So at nighttime, it’s these. Did you do the nighttime ones? Like just that. Again, it’s co -parenting, right? Like working together just because you’re divorced doesn’t mean that the
Kristina Ivy (26:36)
Mm -hmm.
Robert J. Taylor (26:41)
relationship as far as a co -parent has changed or your shared obligation and duties to the kids have changed, right? Like you’re, I joke sometimes when we do go to activities that our kids are doing when it’s their dad’s week, you know, it’s like, what do you mean I have to go sit outside at 107 degree heat and watch the JV football game? It’s his dad’s week. Yeah, I say it’s his dad’s week. And his mom’s like, no, like that’s, that’s, that’s not a thing. Get in the car. I mean,
Kristina Ivy (27:00)
What kind of crap is this?
Eh.
Robert J. Taylor (27:10)
And I get the cut. We go to all the games and activities too. I just like to give her a hard time. But I do think like that parenting, it’s not an on -off switch, right? Like, hey, it’s my week with the kids. So I’m doing 100 % and then it’s your week with the kids. So now I’m doing 0%. Like you’re still a parent. You just don’t have the kids in your house, but you’re still like, you’re talking about loving them, caring them. Maybe you got to take the medicine across town.
You got to go to that football practice or get them to the dance team competition or whatever it is because mom’s working late.
Kristina Ivy (27:45)
Right.
And you start to notice patterns too in that communication. So one thing that I’ve noticed recently is that the parent who is on the off week ends up doing a lot more texting about the kids. I feel like it’s because we have the mental space to do so.
So like right now the kids are with their dad and I’m like, yeah, we’re gonna follow up on this and there’s this, you know, they’ve got this dental appointment on this day and you know, just reiterating sort of the things that are currently happening and in flux and the person who’s doing the parenting during that time is quieter. They’re the ones doing the, you know, taking care of the kids. That’s time intensive.
Robert J. Taylor (28:33)
It is.
Kristina Ivy (28:34)
And so I try to be mindful of that now when I and kind of reduce or make it one message with multiple things instead of separating them
Robert J. Taylor (28:45)
Yeah, Tuesday this is happening Thursdays the dentist Friday’s a rain day.
Kristina Ivy (28:48)
just to not like inundate or make him feel like he needs to be responsible for responding to or acknowledging these things that I’m saying, because he’s busy and I get
Robert J. Taylor (28:57)
How does he do it back when it’s your week?
Kristina Ivy (29:01)
Yeah, like I do think I get more messages when he has downtime and because he’s doing the same thing. Like he’s more space, cognitive space and bandwidth for planning and trying to organize things.
Robert J. Taylor (29:17)
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I can relate. I’m in the military, go away and we get done with training for the day or whatever it is. So I’m in my hotel room or maybe I’m eating out on the town and I’m texting my wife, right? Because most of time I’m two hours ahead, go to DC a lot, go to the East Coast a lot. I’m done with my day. I’m in a hotel room, I’m bored or I’m sitting at a restaurant by myself and I’m bored. So it’s like, what are you doing? What are the kids doing? What’s happening?
And then it’s like silent and it’s just like, what do you, why aren’t you texting me back? You don’t miss me. And then, you know, just earlier this month, my wife went to the East coast herself to attend a friend’s wedding. ⁓ and it was like Thursday and I was like, I, I barely have time. I haven’t talked to my wife hardly at all this week. her initiated that conversation much this week. I’ve just been too busy. mean, being a single parent’s a lot of work. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried it, but it’s just nonstop go.
And then it’s just like, oh shoot kids, kids wants to watch TV. All right, that gets me 25 minutes. I got to unload the dishwasher. I got to throw dinner in the oven. Let me go up and move the laundry around. All right, now it’s time to feed the kids. All right, hey, all right, we got, we got 15 minutes to eat and then we got to throw you in the bathtub and get you to bed on time and read the stories and everything. And then you’re like, okay, all the kids stuff done. What do I have to do tomorrow? And then you’re tired and
Kristina Ivy (30:18)
Yeah.
Right, right, to set up and prep the day and then you just want to like doom scroll on your phone or watch some, yeah, show, I don’t
Robert J. Taylor (30:54)
Yeah, it was weird because it was like Thursday and I was like, I haven’t missed my wife once this week. And it’s like, well, I I like my wife and I want to be around and definitely.
Kristina Ivy (31:02)
You just haven’t even had time to appreciate her absence.
Robert J. Taylor (31:05)
Yeah. And then as we rolled into like the weekend and like, didn’t have to work and we slept in and goofed off. was like, man, been nicer. She was here for the weekend so we can go do the weekend activities together or whatever. But yeah, it was just a busy jam packed week of three or four days into it. ⁓ just trying to keep everything afloat. didn’t have time to, to, to text her and miss her, I guess, as much as I thought that I would have. I mean, I missed.
having her around and I miss doing the stuff with her, but I was too tired to really do it so I can see when it’s not your week. I don’t know, sometimes our daughter spent last night at her cousin’s house and we kinda had the night off, we didn’t have to put her in the bathtub, we didn’t have to tuck her in, do the bedtime routine, which is about a half hour routine, and then we’d get her.
Kristina Ivy (31:54)
Wait, you had zero kids during this time? Or did you have your stepkids? Your other two?
Robert J. Taylor (31:59)
⁓ I don’t remember.
They are the big two way here, but like they’re teenagers at summertime. They don’t need any parenting. Yeah. They, yeah. And then the next morning, right? Like we just got up and brushed her teeth and left the house. And it was like, we normally got to get her up and do this whole get her out of the house routine. ⁓ it was just like, it’s quiet, but I miss
Kristina Ivy (32:06)
they’re independent, they’re off doing their things. So you kind of really had that night
Robert J. Taylor (32:26)
It’s just like, man, if she lived someplace else every other week, like, do I just spend the whole week walking around missing her? man, it’s weird. I just had to brush my own teeth this morning. I didn’t have to like talk a seven year old into wanting to brush her teeth, you know, like.
Kristina Ivy (32:32)
Yeah.
It’s bittersweet, right? Like I do think in some ways some of that downtime makes me a better parent. Yeah, well, because our end stage capitalism, right? Our society, whatever. It is not set up to support people in hard work and parenting and like all the stress of life. And it’s hard to try and build
Robert J. Taylor (32:51)
some you time.
Kristina Ivy (33:11)
good habits to support yourself in that. Like here’s my counselor person speaking, right? So it’s, is, I have to focus on the positives when they’re not with me because I do miss them. I miss them terribly. And I think about the things that I miss out on when they’re not with me and it makes me very sad, but there are positives and I have to focus on those in order to carry me through those times.
and remind myself that the space that that gave me and the new relationships that I’m in and all of that works to make me a better parent for them when they are with me.
Robert J. Taylor (33:54)
Yeah, sure. The recovery or the downtime and the re -energize probably helps for the next week, the next block of parenting time. I don’t know, sometimes I joke like if I could find a way to only have my daughter here every other week like the big two so that I could spend the other week with my wife like we used to without having to divorce my wife to get the every other week parenting plan like that would be the winning combination. But then she spends the night at her
Ant’s house one night and I’m like, where’s my kid?
Kristina Ivy (34:26)
Where’s my little person?
Robert J. Taylor (34:30)
I’ve left the house early since then and waking her up and being like, goodbye, I love you. I’ll miss you. So it just would be a challenge to do that four times. the kids are, a little, teenagers are a little bit different because they’re constantly gone anyway and have their own friends and want to do stuff. Sometimes I joke, I can’t tell the difference between our week and their dad’s week for oldest because she’s always at a friend’s house. She has a job.
as a boyfriend, those type things. But when they were younger, you know, and always involved, yeah, and just always present and taking them places and doing stuff, it, you know, it’d be like, all right.
Kristina Ivy (35:06)
much more noticeable.
Well, that reminds me of a question I had for you, which was like, when did you start exerting influence as a parental figure? Like, did you wait until you were married or were you doing parenting when you were living together? Was it when you were dating? When did you start like actively parenting your older children?
Robert J. Taylor (35:27)
No, I’m a radio.
⁓ I mean, we lived together before we got married. So sometime before that, ⁓ when we were dating, I’m not quite sure because, know, most of the time I had, the kids would come visit me on the weekends or I’d come to their mom’s house for the weekend, but the weekend capabilities, a lot of times they’d come to my house and it was like, what can we do? That’s fun. The whole weekend. plus my wife was there, so it wasn’t really a lot of parenting.
happening necessarily at my level. Obviously when we moved in together and there were times when my wife wasn’t around, still is, know, she works late, does stuff. One kid has to be somewhere so you got the other kid or you have to get the kid somewhere or both kids have to be someplace, right? I don’t know when I started. I think two things. The first,
My wife was really gracious with letting me learn how to parent with her kids.
Kristina Ivy (36:40)
Because you didn’t have children going into that relationship. You kind
of walked into a built -in
Robert J. Taylor (36:46)
It was a challenge. It’s like you don’t know what you don’t know and there’s only one way to learn it. But yeah, or it’s like, hey, if you don’t do this thing, this other thing is going to happen. And then, you know, in your mind as a reasonable, reasonable, rational person, you think that thing’s such a terrible thing that there’s no way that the kid’s not going to do the thing. Then they don’t. And then. Yeah.
Kristina Ivy (36:53)
Trial by fire and then they don’t do the thing.
Robert J. Taylor (37:13)
And then you have to stick with it. You know, like, hey, if you don’t do that thing, we’re not going here, you know, or you don’t eat your dinner. We’re not going to go to Sonic and get ice cream. But then everybody wants to go to Sonic and get ice cream. But, know, you said it. So you have to live with it. And my wife is very gracious about not overriding me in those situations. We would live with the punishment that was was predetermined. But I learned very quickly
Kristina Ivy (37:44)
What hills you were willing to die on?
Robert J. Taylor (37:46)
Well, just like, you know, hey, if you do this, if you don’t stop doing that thing or if you don’t do your chore, then you can’t watch TV the rest of the week. And then it’s Tuesday. They’re still there a Friday and the next day they don’t do the thing again. And it’s like, well, you know, maybe, hey, if you don’t do this thing, there’s no TV the night. And then tomorrow you still have tonight’s TV in the bag, you know, or hey, if you
don’t do that thing when I getting ice cream and it’s like, but I really want to get ice cream. So if I really want to get ice cream, I don’t say that punishment, right? But like learning. Yeah. But my wife was very gracious with not overriding me or being like, you’re that was stupid. Now we can’t go get ice cream. You know, was just trial by fire and learning that like, yup, now, now I’m not getting ice cream. Sometimes it’s like, damn it. We’re punishing ourselves to teach these kids lessons.
Kristina Ivy (38:17)
Nyeh heh
Yeah, don’t use that as the consequence.
Yeah.
Robert J. Taylor (38:43)
Um, so that was,
that was good. And then I think the second, uh, piece that really helped was, uh, they were young. mean, four and seven. And I think that’s a big piece. I think all the time, like, I know people that, you know, marry or date somebody with a 13 year old and it’s just like, I don’t know. Like I fell in them when they’re. Yeah. Yeah. And I fell on them when they were young, especially, you four, seven is pretty young too, but I don’t know that my son remembers.
Kristina Ivy (39:02)
It’s a different kind of entering parenting and building a relationship.
Robert J. Taylor (39:12)
a period of his life that I wasn’t there. The teenager, 17 -year -old, does remember a period of time that I wasn’t in her life, but it’s less than half of her life at this point in time.
Kristina Ivy (39:26)
Yeah, that’s interesting to point out and think
Robert J. Taylor (39:30)
But I think all our kids think, because their dad’s remarried, they have a stepmom, just think they have four parents. They think they have four grownups that love them, are involved, go to activities, get them to where they need to be, do the things. And I think that that kind of helps. It’s not necessarily me or anything that I did. Probably was harder with the punishment than I needed to be. I had to learn the hard way, had to learn how to practice kids. Sometimes I feel bad because I know that I’m a much better
father to my daughter Olivia because I learned how to be a parent with the older two and what works and what doesn’t work. I feel bad about it. Like obviously I wish I would have figured it out at the beginning initially. But again, it’s one of those things you don’t know until you’re doing, but then it’s like, well, I’m not.
Kristina Ivy (40:07)
Mm
And it has nothing to do with the fact that they’re your stepchildren versus your biological child. Like this happens with nuclear families and the first child and the second child. Like it’s not a unique experience.
Robert J. Taylor (40:30)
Yeah, and I see. Well, I see it differently. I’ve witnessed people who have a group of kids, right? They’re one to three kids and maybe later on in life, probably a new partner or oopsie, whichever the 10 years later, there’s another kid and they’re just different people. They’re different and you can see that they’re parenting that younger kid differently than the older kids. And yeah, they they know more. They’re older, they’re more mature, they’re wiser. It’s like a my
gonna be a shitty parent to my daughter because I was a shitty parent to the older two and I didn’t know anything about parenting. Like that doesn’t make sense. When you know better, do better. And so she definitely gets to reap those benefits, but sometimes I do feel guilty that I had to learn by my mistakes, where what Ler taught me. Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Kristina Ivy (41:09)
Yeah,
They were your guinea pigs, your parenting guinea pigs.
Robert J. Taylor (41:28)
They’re the only kids I got, so I wanted any other guinea pigs. But I think though, more than me or anything that I’ve done, just kind of their outlook and their nature. We got four parents, which is anything that I’ve done, I don’t think, kind of made it easy. And because they were young, I would say, I will say, I am saying that 100 % of
Kristina Ivy (41:32)
No more do -overs.
Robert J. Taylor (41:58)
Any attitude, any drama, any teenage angst. Yeah, there’s kids. It’s never been step -parent focus. It’s never been, know my parent, you can’t tell me what to do. Sometimes I joke, but sometimes I joke. I’m like, I’m not your parent, I’m just your step -dad. My wife doesn’t think that joke’s funny. But then they’re like, no, you’re our parent. You have to do the thing. Or you can’t leave us here at the mall by ourselves. You’re our parent. What are you?
Kristina Ivy (42:03)
Thanks.
You’re not my real dad.
Robert J. Taylor (42:28)
They won’t even let me try to pull that joke on them. And again, my wife doesn’t find it the least bit humorous at all to any degree. But they, think just their outlook. And I think too, I don’t know of all kids, but these kids, just really forgiving, you You can yell at them and then the next day they’re like hugging you when you go to bed at night, you know, or whatever, when they go to bed. I don’t know. I that, I don’t…
know anything about stat parenting, these kids have made it as easy as possible. But I do think getting them as young as possible, if I was out there giving out stat parenting advice, I would think that the younger kids were probably easier to work with.
Kristina Ivy (43:12)
either the younger or like the much older and already kind of independent, but that middle ground with puberty is kind of scary.
Robert J. Taylor (43:21)
Yeah, but I mean would say I mean if I was I mean if I was dating somebody that had a 15 16 17 18 year old like what’s that relationship gonna be like Probably that especially if dads around Maybe if there is no dad maybe that’d be different But like especially you get 16 like my daughter’s 17 like if I met her right now Like she’s moving to college in two months if I met my wife right now, right? Like what’s that relationship gonna be like right? Probably my wife’s kid. My wife has a kid, right? But you know at five at four and seven
Kristina Ivy (43:49)
Yeah.
Robert J. Taylor (43:51)
Like those are my kids, like we grew up together, done all the stuff. There’s really no doubt or question and having that relationship, it’s great. But would have been much more challenging to establish that relationship at 17 or maybe even 13.
Kristina Ivy (44:07)
Yeah, not impossible.
I will argue not impossible. I think the effort you put forward to make time, give attention, because you have your family that you’re born to and then you have your chosen family, right? You have friends maybe that you’ve met at age 20, but they’re family, right? And it doesn’t matter that you didn’t grow up with them. That connection is still intense. It’s still strong. And I think that that can happen
kids that are older with step parents. But I agree that it would be very challenging versus growing. just being there as a sort of constant other parent in the home as a young kid and learning and growing together that
Robert J. Taylor (44:54)
Yeah, being the new
Kristina Ivy (44:58)
The new guy.
Robert J. Taylor (44:59)
Yeah. Well, that was a great conversation.
Kristina Ivy (45:04)
That was a long conversation.
